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The Mystery of Bagog

September 7, 2012

IMPORTANT NOTE:
I am neither a historian nor a bible scholar nor an expert on the things you are about to read.
Nevertheless I tried to be as accurate as possible.
I write this in the hope, that other people with more knowledge and more resources at their disposal can use this information and continue where I had to stop.

It all began in 2007 or 2008. I don’t remember exactly. All I remember is, that at that time I couldn’ care less about religion or prophecy.
In this period of time I was driving frequently through a city in southwest Germany where I saw a pub with the name Bagog. Somehow the name made me curious. Since many of the bars and pubs in that area are turkish I assumed, that this was some turkish spelling of the City of Bangkok. When I went in some day I asked the owner about the name and he said that it was the name of a mountain in the turkish part of Kurdistan. Roughly a year ago, when I saw some videos of Walid Shoébat in which he stressed, that Magog is probably in Asia Minor or in some of the former Soviet Republics which are muslim, I remembered Bagog and thought immediatly that it could somehow be connected. After reading further about Gog/Magog and after having digested a lot of insane bullshit (“The antichrist is Irish because their ancestors are the Scythians and Magog where the Scythians…”) I wanted to examine this thing for myself.
Finally in June 2011 I started my investigation.
The first real challenge was to find Bagog. I did not find it on any map that I had access to.
Searching on the internet the only useful information I found, was a page with information about the Yazidi, written in German. Here is an excerpt (Translation By Google Translator):

… “The Êzîdî lived in the districts of Midyat, Nuseybin, Sirnex and Idil.
The Êzîdî lived next to the Assyrians (Arama) and Kurdish Muslims, the mountain regions of Bagog (Turkish = Dibeg Dagleri) and the underlying flat plain between the towns of Midyat, Idil, Nuseybin and Cizre. This region is also known in Europe under the name of Tur Abdin.” …

Using Google Maps I found a mountain called Dibek in the mentioned region in Turkey.
But still this was not good enough for me.
After a very long and hard search I found the following news article, written in Turkish and fed it to the Google translator.

“Bagog Seven Days On MountainMount and seven days in Nusaybin Bagog fire broke out in places. From the town center to the rural areas, villagers tried to intervene on their own fire.Mardin-air temperature 40 ° passes Nusaybin Bagog Mountain and a week from place to place fire breaks out in Dera Çömera devastated villagers. Indicating that the fires in the region by its own means söndürdüklerini villagers said they were helpless against the fires.

The fire in the nearby hamlet of Kasrik suggesting that the station does not intervene Kasrikliler Nusaybin Governor Yucel Gemici phone for help. Forestry Administration and the Municipality of the introduction of sub-governor of Nusaybin come to the region on fire, firefighters tried to intervene.

Bagog Mountain and Mountain Creek Comer document, as well as inside the evacuated villages, Eskihisar, Üçyol, Kayadibi, Duzce Kasrik Mazra and Villages in the fires of grape, peanut and almond trees were reported burned.

Citizens with drought in the region largely victims of fires that the people of the region indicated that emergence.”

With this additional information I was able to pinpoint the exact location of the Bagog mountain.

Mount Bagog Map

Mount Bagog Map

So now that the location of Bagog is identified, we have a decision to make before we go any further.
Clearly Ezekiel spoke of future events.
But are the names he used for the nations involved the names used in his lifetime or are these the names that will be used for these nations in the future?

Let’s say, that the names used by Ezekiel to identify those nations involved in the Gog/Magog war
are the names which will be used to refer to them at the time when the prophecy will be fulfilled.
In contrast to the location of Magog, the locations of Meshech and Tubal have been well established to be in modern Turkey.
If Ezekiel would refer to future nations, then why would he talk about Meshech and Tubal instead of Turkey?
Why would he not talk about the name of the Turkish provinces that cover the area of ancient Meshech and Tubal?
Unless one believes, that there will be a time in the future when these countries or provinces are reinstituted under their ancient names one cannot hold this position.
It happens very rarely that nations reappear under their ancient quasi extinct names.
As far as I know there are only three cases in which this happens:

  • There is a people that identifies itself with the name because of their historical connection to a land.
  • There is a people without any connection to a land who identifies itself with the name of this land to make territorial claims.
  • A ruler decides for whatever reason to name a certain geographical area after a long extinct nation or people.

Two prominent examples for the first case are Greece and Israel.
Both of them ceased to exist for a very long time.
Israel didn’t exist for over 2000 years before she was reborn in her ancient place under her ancient name.
Greece didn’t exist for roughly 400 years (Ottoman occupation) before she was reborn under her ancient name in her ancient place in 1821.
Miraculously these two nations where reborn. Why?
Because these peoples never forgot who they were. They refused to drop their identity, history, culture and religion.
In the case of Turkey you have ABSOLUTELY NO ETHNIC GROUP today who would themselve identify with ancient Meshech and Tubal.

Two examples for the second case are the so-called Palestinans and the so-called Macedonians of the former Yugoslavia.
The ‘Palestinians’ are an Arab people with no connection whatsoever to the ancient Philistines.
The ‘Macedonians’ are Slavic and Albanian people with no connection whatsoever to the ancient Macedonians who were a Greek people.
Yet in both instances they use these ancient names to legitimize territorial claims against Israel and Greece.
Again, there is no one in Turkey or any other Country who uses the names used by Ezekiel to make territorial claims against turkey.

The same reasoning applies to the other nations which are mentioned by Ezekiel and which do not exist anymore.
Ask yourself how likely it is, that the nations of Cush, Put, Gomer and Beth Togermah will somehow be reinstituted under their ancient names.
Therefore I come to the conclusion that Ezekiel used the names which were used to refer to these nations or geographic locations in his lifetime or in even earlier times.

From this it follows that it doesn’t matter how a certain place is called today.
It matters only how it was called in Ezekiel’s times or before.

Since Gog of the land of Magog is the chief leader of Meshech and Tubal it is likely that Magog is near those places.

So the questions we must answer are these:

  • What was Bagog called in Ezekiels times or before his lifetime?
  • Where is Bagog in relation to Meshech and Tubal?

The Bagog mountain is located near the city of Nusaybin in an area called today Tur Abdin.
Tur Abdin is famous for its ancient christian monasteries and was known in ancient times for its wine.
Mentioned as early as 901 BC Nusaybin was in a strategically important location and was known in antiquity as Nisibis or Nasibina.
Tur Abdin was called different names at different times.
Moreover sometimes the names referred to the whole area and sometimes to a specific location in this area.
The Assyrians called it Kasyari Mountain while in the Bible it is referred to as Izla or Izalla (Ezekiel 27:19).
The Greeks called it Mount Masius (Strabo) while the Syrians called it Beth Gawgal or Beth Gaugal.
The name Beth Gaugal was used at least since the 5th century AD.
Philoxenus, bishop of Mabbogh (485-519) addressed a letter to the monks of Beth-Gaugal.
Also early church historian Sozomen (400-450) used the name Mount Gaugalion or Mount Gaugalios.
Could the name Beth Gaugal or Mount Gagalion have been earlier in use, possibly at the time of Ezekiel?
The answer is: yes, it could!
I quote from
“Monk and mason on the Tigris frontier: the early history of Tur Abdin” by Andrew Palmer, Pages 28-29:

“Strabo relates, amongst other customs, the tabogganing exploits of the inhabitants of Mt. Masius, but no ancient authority tells us, what kind of religion was practised there before the advent of Christianity. It is possible, that the ancient name Beth-Gawgal, which we find attached to the escarpment which looks southwards onto the Mesopotamian plain, may be evidence of the cult of an Assyrian deity*)49. Aramaic inscriptions copied in Midyat, Hesno d-Kifo and Sari yield some theophoric names and a date which Pognon interprets as c.200BC.
*)49:
Gugal or gugallu means ‘inspector of canals’ in Akkadian and is used as a title for the weather-god and for Abad, who is called ‘gugallu of heaven and earth’.”

Since Nusuaybin and Bagog were part of the Assyrian Empire from 852 BC to to 608 BC, it is quite possible that this place was named after a Mesopotamian deity and that the name was used at the time of Ezekiel(c.622 BC – c.570 BC).
So, how could Gog, Beth Gaugal and Bagog be related?
I came across an interesting comment at the blog “Joel’s Trumpet”.
In this comment the writer, who calls himself Alex, speaks about Ezekiel 38 in the different versions of the old testament.
One of the versions is the Peshitta Tanakh, the old testament in the Aramic language.
Since it is a lengthy comment, I quote only the relevant part:

Peshitta Tanakh:[38:2-3] Bar adam, set your face against the bayta (house/homeland/territory/seat) of Gaug, and against the land of Magug, the medabbrana (leader) and resha* (head/top/chief/) of Mushkhi** and Taubel, prophesy against him…Lo, I am against you Gaug, medabbrana (leader) and resha* (head/top/chief/) of Mushkhi** and Taubel.
[39:1] …Lo, I am against you Gaug, medabbrana (leader) and resha* (head/top/chief/) of Mushkhi** and Taubel. (own translation with the aid of CAL & SEDRA)*Aramaic word resha is the direct cognate of the Hebrew rosh and is applied only to the person of the highest authority, eg: the High Priest, Head of State or the Patriarch of the Church. I’m trying to get hold of the “Mosul Bible”, this is an Arabic translation of the Peshitta (OT & NT) done by the Iraqi Chaldean Catholics. I bet they translated medabbrana (leader) as imam (leader in Arabic), while the standard Arabic translations (Hebrew & Greek based like Smith & Van Dyk) undoubtedly have amir (prince, following the Masoretic Hebrew).

End Quote

Since I have no access to an English or any other translation of the Peshitta Tanakh, I cannot verify the above quote.
However, I have verified, that in the English translation of the Aramaic New Covenant, Gog and Magog is spelled exactly as in the above quote: Gaug and Magug.
I have no reason to believe, that the above quote is not credible.
Notice also, that the above quote does not only talk about Gaug, but the Bayta of Gaug.
In Aramaic and Hebew the words Bayta and Beth both mean literally house, but can also have much broader meaning, for example ‘House of David’.
Beth is often used as part of the names of cities or villages, for example Bethlehem.
Again I quote from this entry:

The Peshitta’s reading is differs significantly because it specifically states that Gog is both the leader and chief, while the Hebrew says “chief prince”, with a grammatical pause between the two words. Like the LXX the Peshitta Tanakh was translated from a much earlier Hebrew text than the one we use today (Masoretic text), and it was translated earlier than the Vulgate (around 100BC – 100AD). Could this have been the original reading of Ezekiel, which the LXX failed to get right? I find it especially intriguing that the Peshitta’s reading extends the prophecy even to Gog’s bayta, which is probably referring to the location of his seat of power, if not his very household!

End quote

We all know, that names can change when they are translated from one language into another.
Even in one and the same language, there can be variations of names.
Example 1:
The name of the city of Naples in different languages:
Greek: Neapolis (original name)
English: Naples
German: Neapel
Italian: Napoli
Example 2:
Two variations of the Greek name of the City of Salonica.
Both variations are in use today:
Thessaloniki
Saloniki
You see, that for conveniance, the speaker can drop the first part of the word.
Example 3:
Variation in the name of a person:
Greek: Demokritos
German: Demokrit

It is a fact, that Gog is spelled as Gog in one version of the bible while it is spelled as Gaug in another version.
It is a fact, that the place called Beth Gaugal in the Syriac language, became Bagog in the Kurdish language.
It is easy to imagine, that there was the name Beth Gaug as a short form.
It is equally easy to imagine, that the alternative Form Bayta Gaug eventually became Bagog.
If this is true, it means that Bagog will be the seat of Gog’s power and also that it was a Part of the ancient land of Magog.


Where is Bagog in relation to Meshech and Tubal?

Tubal is relatively easy identified.
Based on the assumed association with the ancient Tibareni tribe, some think, that Tubal was on the Black Sea coast of northern Turkey where the Tibareni supposedly lived.
Others link the ancient Tubal with the Neo-Hittite kingdom of Tabal, which existed at least since the 8-9th century BC. and was also located in Turkey .
I go with the latter opinion, since the first seams a little far fetched and because of the greater linguistic similarity of the latter name.
Concerning the location of Meshech there are more differences of opinion among scholar but most of them agree,
that Meshech was in Turkey.
Some associate them with the ancient Mushki people who in turn are by some associated with the Phrygians in Turkey.
Though it proves nothing, I want to mention, that Nusaybin was called by the Greeks Antiochia Mygdonia and the river that flows through the city was called the Mygdonius.
Interestingly the Mygdones were considered by some writers to be a part of the Phrygians.
Be it as it may. Ancient Tabal was close to Mount Bagog and Meshech was certainly closer to it than Russia.
Based on Josephus who said “Magog founded the Magogians, thus named after him, who by the Greeks are called Scythians.” many identify Magog with Russia.
But consider this:
1. Ezekiel is not talking about the Magogians but he talks explicitly about the Land of Magog.
2. Throughout the 7th century BC the Scythians were very active in the Middle East, were they launched campaigns and invasions even to the borders of Egypt influencing the Assyrians and Medians and eventually bringing down the Assyrian Empire.
So one could argue, that the Land of the Scythians was indeed in Turkey and the Middle East in Ezekiel’s time.

Who is Gog?

Frankly, I’ve got no clue.
So I am going to speculate, who he could be.
As stated before, gugal or gugallu was a title that was used for mesopotamian deities.
This would support those, who claim, that Gog is not a name but a title.
The mesopotamian pantheon with its thousands of gods and demons and conflicting legends is truly a mess.
It is far beyond my abilities to go into much detail here.
The title gugal or gugallu was mainly used for the weather god Abad.
It was also one of the 50 names of the highest babylonian god Marduk.
Marduk was not always the highest babylonian god.
But as he rose to become the highest deity, he assumed the titles of other gods.
Also there was the “Bull of Heaven”, called Gugalana.
The bull was worshipped in many different cultures.
One is the Minoan culture, from where the legend of the Minotaur originates.
The Minotaur was a creature with the head of a bull and a human body.
Another example is the worship of the Golden Calf, mentioned in the bible.
The star constellation of Taurus and the Taurus mountains (interestingly Bagog is part of these mountains) where named after the Bull.
Gog could represent all these false gods and false beliefs.
After all, God brings Gog to the land of Israel to show to the world who is boss.
The hole purpose is, to show to His people and to the world that He is the Lord.
From a biblical point of view it would make sense, that Gog would represent ALL false gods and beliefs and the ultimate false god lucifer, so that by elimination of Gog (and his armies), there would remain only one true God.

Conclusion:

I cannot prove conclusively that Bagog ist the Seat of Gog’s power (Magog) but the possible connection with Bagog and Magog definitively deserves further investigation.

Related Links:
Probable location of Magog (biblestudying.net)
The Nations of Ezekiel 38/39 (biblicalstudies.com)

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9 Responses to “The Mystery of Bagog”

  1. Cheerio Says:

    Hello Artaxes,

    So here:

    [In the Amarna letters,] “Amenhotep III mentions three countries—Gag, Hanigalbat. and Ugarit. […] A people called Gag, or Gog, was thus known in the fifteenth century B.C.” … This truncated sentence was sourced from Encyclopædia Biblica [*sources below] a very old book, which is (forgivably—is that a word?) incorrect in its dating, as well as its location of Hanigalbat, which concerns us.

    Hanigalbat was the Kingdom of Mitanni*, which contained the mountain, now called Bagog (thanks for the map!) at the time of its collapse in 1300 BC.

    The Kingdom of Mitanni, after losing much of its land to the Hittites, was ultimately defeated by Assyria*, whose initial border with the Hittites was the Balikh River*, which was west of the mountain, now called Bagog.

    So, the mountain, now called Bagog, was the possession of the Assyrian Empire until the Battle of Nineveh* (612 BC) where “an allied army of Medes and Chaldeans, rebelling Assyrians and Babylonians, together with Scythians and Cimmerians besieged and sacked” the city. (Mount Bagog looks about a horse-ride, or two, north and west of ancient Nineveh, which was just across the Euphrates from present-day Mosul.)

    Around the time of that battle, there was an actual Scythian chieftan who was called “Gagi”* by Ashurbanipal.* (“Gagi,” I hazard to say, was a title of the chieftan, and not a name, although it may have been an hereditary name, I suppose.)

    Scythians and/or Cimmerians are often identified with “Gog” and/or “Magog.” Is it possible that this mountain, Bagog, was named for the invading “Gog/Magog” tribes that defeated the Assyrians in that battle? Or, was “Magog” just the name of the place where those nomadic Scytho-Cimmerian warrior tribes happened to be at any given time? It does appear that they were, at least, near the mountain, now called Bagog, at the time of Ezekiel* (whose approximate year of birth seems to have been 622 BC.)

    Sometimes, late at night, when I think no one is listening to my thoughts, I like to think that the later Kingdom of Commagene* was peopled by descendant tribes of Gogmagog—just because of their barely, sound-alike names…

    Thank you for the wonderful article!
    Cheerio

    Copy and Paste Sources:

    *Encyclopædia Biblica:
    https://books.google.com/books?id=5Hw_AAAAYAAJ&pg=PA4388&lpg=PA4388&dq=Amenhotep+III+land+of+Gag&source=bl&ots=Jco8ohmFI6&sig=9xIDef_8oyXFtsins_fcdw39Hgo&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjS0MD5xYrNAhVG3WMKHQ7IAA0Q6AEIIDAD

    *Kingdom of Mitanni:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitanni

    *Assyria:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assyria

    *Balikh River: (good maps)
    http://america.pink/balikh-river_556034.html

    *Battle of Nineveh (612 BC):
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Nineveh_(612_BC)

    *Scythian Chieftan Gagi:
    https://books.google.com/books?id=OqNGAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA384&lpg=PA384&dq=gagi+scythian+king&source=bl&ots=tBkF7ReBSY&sig=V9q9iLUcBFzQAAXdRVhcq-xpAQs&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwim_qSctorNAhVO-mMKHQZWAQEQ6AEIIjAD#v=onepage&q=gagi%20scythian%20king&f=false

    *Nineveh:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nineveh

    *Ezekiel:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ezekiel

    *Ashurbanipal:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashurbanipal

    *Kingdom of Commagene:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Commagene

    Here is a more recent source for the territory called Gag mentioned in the Amarna letters—here called Gaga:
    https://books.google.com/books?id=PtxOXRlPMA0C&pg=PA3&lpg=PA3&dq=gog+and+magog+in+pre-islamic,+jewish&source=bl&ots=3s9jyD2JkY&sig=_qmuWGS9U_EDO-3yr2Rv-Rnd02Q&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwioneGh0orNAhUUTGMKHYwUDYgQ6AEIGjAB#v=onepage&q=gog and magog in pre-islamic, jewish&f=false


  2. Assalam-o-Alykum, my name is Muhammad Qasim I am from Pakistan. Sorry my English is not good.

    Its happened with me, from last 26+ years Allah and Muhammad s.a.w keep coming into my dreams, over 460+ times Allah comes in my dreams and 250+ times Mohammad s.a.w comes in my dreams, when I was about 12 years old I saw first time Allah and Mohammad s.a.w both in dream, after that in 93 when I was 17 years old Allah and Mohammad s.a.w starts coming continuously in my dreams and still Allah and Muhammad s.a.w coming into my dreams.

    Muhammad s.a.w is the last Messenger of Allah and its my Imaan Mohammad s.a.w is the last Prophet of Allah and I am the Ummati of Muhammad s.a.w

    In 2007 Allah and Mohammad s.a.w starts teaching me in dreams what u have to do and what u have not to do, Mostly Allah and Muhammad s.a.w told me to avoid from all type of form of shirk and in april-2014 Allah and Mohammad s.a.w start to telling me in dreams qasim share your dreams to everyone than I started to share my dreams to my family members, friends and some other people, I also share my dreams through email to Pak Army official sites, Pak Govt sites, Pakistan’s big name people, and many Islamic Countries official websites but seems like no one was believing on me and my dreams they all ignore me, after that I stopped sharing my dreams.

    Dec-2014 Mohammad s.a.w comes twice time in dream in a night and told me “qasim you should have to share ur dreams to everyone to save Pakistan to save Islam” I got confused I talked my self I share my dreams to many people and they are not believing on it what should I do more? and then Peshawar school got attacked and then I think and decided to share my dreams on Internet forums, but still people not believing on me and my dreams.

    Let me clear I am a simple person I am not a religious person, clean shaved, did not praying regularly, no tahajjud I just tell the truth to everyone and I didnot lie, I dont know why Allah and Mohammad s.a.w keeps coming into my dreams.

    I didnot look at Allah I just feel in my dreams Allah is on Arsh and voice coming from there or I saw Noor(light) and voice coming from Noor(light) or Allah talk to me from the sky. I did not look at Mohammad s.a.w face I can see Mohammad s.a.w Body, in one dream I hug with Muhammad s.a.w and my whole body witness me that u r hugging with Mohammad s.a.w I shake hands many times with Mohammad s.a.w in dreams and my hand witness me that u r shaking hand with Mohammad s.a.w.

    In 1994 Allah talked to me in dream from the sky I still remember those words I try to translate it in English “qasim which promises I make with you one day I will full fill my promises and if I cant full fill my promises I will not the Lord of the whole universe”

    From that day I start waiting for the Allah and I didnot lose my hope but whenever I about to lose my hope Allah or Mohammad s.a.w comes into my dreams and told me like that “Sabbrun Jameel qasim” , “qasim only Non-Muslim loses their hope” , “qasim Muslim cant be lose his hope”.

    I saw many other Nabi and Rasool in dreams but I only look at Suleiman A.S face. I saw Esa A.S in my dreams many times.

    In many dreams Allah and Mohammad s.a.w guided me which is the right path.

    In many dreams Allah told me qasim go and turns the world into light as the world in the darkness.

    Many dreams related to my personal life many dreams related to Pakistan/Muslim world and the whole world but its start from Pakistan and many dreams related to Qiammah(the judgment day).

    Allah and Muhammad s.a.w told me many times in dreams qasim one day you will get out the Whole Muslim Ummah from the darkness and then even the whole world and one day the whole world will become peaceful. but its starts from Pakistan.

    In few dreams i saw when whole world will become peaceful a man coming from somewhere else and try to destroy the world peace.

    In few dreams I saw Esa A.S(Jesus a.s) coming from the sky and Yajooj Majooj (gog magog) come out and spread the whole world and I with very few people join the Esa A.S(Jesus a.s) and then we live with Esa A.S …..

    In Feb 2015 Allah told me in dream qasim u will be the last Ummati of Muhammad s.a.w who will die on this earth. means after my death there will b no Muslim left on the earth but only bad people, and Qiyammahh will establish on them.

    In another dream Allah told me qasim I(Allah) will full fill my all promises within next 13 years which I (Allah) makes with you.

    In Feb 2015 Muhammad s.a.w told me in dream “qasim my son dont lose ur hope u r very close to ur destiny Allah is helping u, my son just wait a little more.

    1993 when dreams starts I make a note book and I note my dreams on that note book how much time Allah comes in dreams and how much time Mohammad s.a.w comes in my dreams but few years back I lost that note book during the shifting. total drams are more than 800+ I still remember many many dreams.

    Many people told me you are mentally ill or its shaitan, that is why u are seeing these dreams. I confirmed it to many people I am not mentally ill and its not shaitaan. I believe Allah and Mohammad s.a.w and They are coming in my dreams, I am still unable to understand why Allah wanted it from me to share my dreams to others? maybe there is a big message in my dreams.

    Many years back in one dream Allah told me qasim before sleep read last 3 Qull and then sleep so shaitaan stay away from you, and I am doing this from last many years.

    Allah told me in many dreams like that “qasim one day I will help u and will give u the success and I will full fill my all promises even if the only one day left from Qiyammah (the judgment day) and the whole world will see your success” , but Allah didnot told me when that day will come, and I am waiting for Allah from last 20 years.

    Its a long long journey for me and still I am waiting for Allah I didnot losses my hope from last 20 years and dont know when and how I will reach to my destiny, I dont even know what is my destiny, only Allah knows better.

    my fb page https://www.facebook.com/pages/Allah-and-Muhammad-SAW-in-my-Dreams/324568321070386

    my blog https://allahandmuhammadsawinmydreams.wordpress.com

    Regards,

    Qasim

    • artaxes Says:

      Welcome Qasim.

      If Allah speaks to you, then you are a prophet.
      But if you are a prophet then Muhammad is not the last prophet and the quran and Muhammad are lying.
      If you tell the truth then Muhammad was a false prophet and the quran is lying.
      If Muhammad and the quran are true then you are not telling the truth and Allah does not speak to you.
      You have a serious problem.

      I don’t have that problem because I’m a Christian and because I know that Allah is a false god, that Muhammad was a false prophet and that the quran is lying.

      You are saying that only Muslims are good people but then you are not good because If you tell the truth then you are not a Muslim because you don’t believe in the quran and Muhammad.
      Your problem, my brother, is, that you are confused.
      You are not crazy. Just confused and deceived.

  3. Lyn Leahz Says:

    Tremendous amount of history presented (ancient history); however, I think you are obviously trying to form a link between this Bagog in Turkey, near the Iranian border, with Magog of Old Test. prophecy.

    I think that it is possible it is referring to the same areas, but I was always taught that Gog was a reference to a title of a ruler, & Magog was the people he rules. Regardless, these are the areas to the North of Israel, which is important, since this describes the final battle, Armageddon, with the hordes from the north swooping down upon Israel to destroy her.

    The ancient Assyrians ARE the Muslim nations of today, as to which Turkey is a part of. The Assyrians’ descendents are those very same people who carried out the attacks on the World Trade Center & the Pentagon.

    If you have not read it, I would suggest you read The Harbinger by Jonathan Cahn..excellent book. Thanks for the invite to your article, and for requesting feedback. I hope I’ve helped. God bless you!

    • artaxes Says:

      Thank you for taking the time to read the article and for your quick and kind response.

      Yes, this is exactly what I’m trying to do. Linking Bagog and Ezekiel’s prophecy.
      When I started my investigation I was open to the possibility (and I still am) that I am completely wrong but what I have found so far makes it impossible to just simply dismiss the possibility that the two are linked without further research.
      Yes Lyn, you’ve helped me. I was inspired to examine again how the title “Gugallu” was used in ancient Mesopotamia.
      What I have found is interesting. The title Gugallu was not just used as a title for deities but the Babylonians used it also as a title for an official who had a relatively high position in their social system. There have been found Babylonian tablets on which it is described how the Gugallu received taxes and also arbitrated legal disputes.
      You can compare the usage of this title to the usage of the title “Lord”.
      This title is used for human persons in a high position like lord Carrington or lord Spencer etc. but it also used for God (The Lord).
      Also interesting is, that Gugallu was transliterated in Aramaic as Gwgl which fits perfectly with the Aramaic name of Bagog (Beth Gawgal).
      The Aramaic alphabet used only consonants but the vowels changed anyway over time while the consonants remained the same. This pheneomenon is known to linguists as vowel shift.
      I think you are correct that Gog is not a literal name but the title of a ruler who rules over Magog, Meshech and Tubal but it may also be a title of a deity or of several deities.
      In light of all this, the likelyhood that the title Gog is a variation of the title Gugallu has neither decreased nor increased.
      But still I don’t know nearly enough about this title since this title was also used by the Sumerians and the Akkadians.
      As for Magog, Ezekiel refers to the land of Magog and not to the Magogian people.
      This is important, because we have to identify Magog with the place that was called Magog at Ezekiel’s time and not with the places where the Magogians might have migrated to.
      I think this makes sense, because when the bible talks about the land of Egypt we know that it is not refering to to Egyptian people but to a piece of land on which there lived not only Egyptians but also other people like for example the Hebrews.
      But again, I am no expert on Bible exegesis. That is why I always want to hear from people who know the scriptures better then myself. My knowledge of the scriptures is very limited.

      I have seen some youtube videos which deal with Mr. Cahn’s book and some of them also featuring Mr. Cahn as a speaker.
      Very interesting stuff indeed.

      Again I want to thank you for taking the time to read this article and for your feedback.

      Sincirely
      Artaxes

  4. pyrosina Says:

    hii Friend

    What is the conclusion of your article? makes me confused

    • artaxes Says:

      Hi pyrosina.

      My conclusion is, that this place I’m talking about may be indeed Magog of which Ezekiel talked about in his prophecy.
      I have tried to find out as much as possible but I can not prove it beyond any reasonable doubt.
      No one who declared a certain place to be the Magog of Ezekiel’s prophecy has proven his theory either.
      In fact, many of theses wild theories and many of the popular theories stand on really shaky ground.
      I guess, you know some of these theories like the most popular one which says that Magog is in Russia.
      Because there is so little information about Magog in the scriptures and in historical sources many of
      these people twist the scriptures beyond recognition and misquote the few historical sources.
      They then go on to build their theories on totally speculative assumptions and try to tell us that they
      can show with absolute certainty that their theories are right.
      While some of these people are doing this to sell their books and DVDs others are doing this for more
      innocent reasons. But both of them are still deceiving other people who want to know the truth.
      This in my view is one of the greatest sins one can do. I hope you know, who the greatest deceiver is.
      My intention when writing this article was, to share what I have found by accident with anyone because
      I think the truth matters and because I hope that people who possess more knowledge than I, will pursue this
      further in search of the truth. If after deep research someone finds, that I am totally wrong, I am OK with it,
      because that’s all I want. That someone with knowledge investigates this seriously.

      I hope, that this answers your question.

      Sincirely
      Artaxes


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